AN INTERVIEW WITH LYANNA ZAMMAS AND GIANNA CAVAROZZI (directors and producers of Glory and Gore)

You don't want the characters to be a framing device for that. You don't write a story because you have an idea or a concept. You write a story because you have characters.

Gianna and Lyanna are both third year at Emerson College. They have decided at the very beginning of their university experience to create Glory and Gore, a short student film that falls into the genre academia, following the tale of Brooks Vaughn, the infamous former president of an elite university’s Symposium Club who returns to seemingly reclaim his role. Glory and Gore is available for free on their Youtube Channel. Step into their world with us in our exclusive first interview with Gianna and Lyanna.
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©Hannah Miller

INTERVIEWER (SELMA TABTI): Let’s dive into your project and your inspirations. What inspired you to become a filmmaker, or how did you get into directing films?

GIANNA CAVAROZZI : For me, I was a huge editor growing up. I am such an advocate for it because fan editing is what got me into film, basically. I just became really proficient with all this editing software. I stand by this and will advocate for it. Fan editing and doing that type of thing is considered embarrassing, but I became more proficient with professional editing software than people twice my age, and that is something that really carried me into going into film. It was just an easy transition, but in college, I turned more toward writing and directing. I love editing, but I don’t know if I want to do that as a career as it is one of my prized hobbies.

LYANNA ZAMMAS : I personally went to a performing arts high school for theater, so my background is more in performance and being an actor on the stage. I have been writing since I was a little kid. I think the only directing I ever really did was directing the stage. When I came to Emerson, I was like, “Oh, I’m going to write my manuscript; I’m a writing student.” But then I met Gigi, and she was like, “Let’s write a movie.” It took some convincing, but it also took no convincing at all. Then it was, “Let’s write a TV show.” I remember when she said, “Oh, we’ll co-direct it together,” and I was like, “Literally, what do you mean we’re going to co-direct it together? Like, what do you mean?” Now it’s fun because we’ve done it twice.

S.T : Can you share how the two of you first met and what brought you together?

G.C : There was a secret first Glory and Gore. It was originally an organization where you could pitch short film or pilot ideas to them. So, we pitched Glory and Gore as a pilot episode for a club at our school, and we got the green light for it. They gave us money to produce it, but it was on such a small scale. It is absolutely not Glory and ​ Gore as it is now. We made that version and then realized, “Hey, this could be something a lot bigger.” We didn’t like the outcome because it really felt like a student film. Glory and Gore is still a student film—let’s not get that wrong—but the first one was even more low-budget and low-stakes. The plot wasn’t really there. It was also formatted to be a pilot, but it wasn’t what we wanted. The original Glory and Gore was also attached to the school and the club, whereas the one we just made is completely independent and fully crowdfunded. It’s its own thing now, not attached to anything.

S.T : It must have taken you a long time, especially since it’s not even a school project.

L.Z : Literally, I think about this, and it really moves me to realize how many people worked for free and gave the highest quality of work they could for us. They’re doing it because they’re students too, and they care about creating—creating with you—and genuinely believe in your project. So many people, probably over a hundred (students and professors), have contributed to this project. It is something very unique and very special.

S.T : I bet you have such amazing memories of your time on set. How long did it take to film everything? 

G.C: In terms of what we are putting out, we filmed it in over three weeks. It was eight shoot days.  but we’ve been working on it for almost two years. 

L.Z : That makes me sick because the first time Gigi was like, “Let’s do this,” was the first semester of our freshman year, and we’re now in our third year. So it’s been a long time coming—a really long time. But in that time, it’s been like, “Oh yeah, it’s our first go at it,” and honestly, it was not very good at all, so let’s scrap that and start all over again. Let’s make a real story and somehow go viral on TikTok. Now, a bunch of people want to help us and pay for it. I think it’s a lot—so many ridiculous things have happened in that time. The reason why we even decided to make this project together was because we had a pretty good idea. We were both people who LOVED the dark academia genre. It was literally how we became friends—by reading those books. Gigi recommended them to me. We were consuming all of this media and recognized that there was a space in there for a film that we could write and a story that we could come up with. Obviously, you don’t expect it to go viral like that, but we knew there were ways we could market this because we are that desired audience. And it worked.

S.T : How did you come up with the story and the character of Glory and Gore? How did everything come together? What came first: the story, a character, or a specific concept?

G.C : That’s the character. I think Brooks came first. We knew we wanted to make something with that presidential tension—that was the first thing we came up with. I know Brooks’ character was the first to be conceived.

L.Z : That’s a great question. It started with a concept, but it’s also just us, because we immediately talked about the people who could fit into it.

G.C : Every piece of media that I make or consume is character-based. I don’t like anything that isn’t character-based. Those were definitely the first kinds of pieces that came together. Also, you can’t really have a plot unless you know how the characters are going to react to a certain situation. You can’t be like, “Oh, this and this are going to happen,” because the characters dictate that.  Writing the characters and how they progress is more important than planning how the story progresses.

L.Z : You don’t want the characters to be a framing device for that. You don’t write a story because you have an idea or a concept; you write a story because you have characters. You should know the people who are going to be in this situation and then form the situation around them. It was definitely Brooks, Cassius, Monroe… and then we figured out all of their twisted, particular relationships with each other.

S.T : You mentioned how the characters are the driving force behind the story. With that in mind, can you talk about the themes you’re exploring in Glory and Gore?

L.Z : My interpretation of it was masculinity and morality, particularly masculinity as told by us and our understanding of it, as well as cult mentality. It’s looking at a series of people, all of whom are the wealthiest, all coming from privileged backgrounds. One of these men may seem like the worst guy in the room—his morals are thrown out the window—but it’s the way he influences the people around him that leads them all to do the same. Is any one of these men better than the others? What kind of circumstances and environment lead to this culture of terror? Would anything happen if a woman were present?

G.C : There is not a single female character, and that is on purpose.

L.Z : The one line spoken by a female character is literally, “You’ve read The Second Sex?” which is a reference to Simone de Beauvoir, a massive piece of literature. One of the characters uses this reference to try to sleep with the only female character.

S.T : With the characters and their relationships in mind, how did you approach the casting process? Did you have a specific physical type in mind for any of the roles?

L.Z : We knew about actors at our school that we wanted to be part of this project, so we asked them to audition.

G.C : And that’s another thing I feel like people always ask, “Oh my god, how did you cast them? How did you find these people?” The answer is, we go to class with them. They’re all our friends. 

G.C : And that’s another thing I feel like people always ask, “Oh my god, how did you cast them? How did you find these people?” The answer is, we go to class with them. They’re all our friends. ​ There were a few people we knew we wanted to be in the project. Monroe, Jason Korn, who plays Monroe, we originally wanted him to be Cassius. But then he came in, auditioned for Monroe, and we were immediately like, “Yeah, that’s him.” That was definitely the biggest surprise. He played it so well.

L.Z : It’s funny because initially, you imagine them as one character, and then they audition for another. And we’re like, “Oh, you are the embodiment of this other character I didn’t even consider.” It wasn’t a difficult casting project, we knew. 

G.C : And Mateo Bailey, who plays Brooks, we knew we wanted him for that role. We reached out to him specifically for that character. Same thing… actually, no. Mateo was the only one where we were like, “Yeah, that’s for sure.” There was some debate… we had a group of people, but there was debate over who would play which role.
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S.T : Let’s go back to literature. I know The Secret History is a big influence, and you also mentioned Plato’s work. Are there any other books that influenced the movie?

G.C : For me, personally, Vicious by V.E. Schwab. Brooks and Cassius are very Victor in certain ways. Also, Kill Your Darlings... oh no, that’s the movie. These Violent Delights is the book.

L.Z : These Violent Delights is definitely where it could go, but it’s not where it is.

G.C: It’s where I would hypothetically like to go, but for now and for our budget, it’s not that.

L.Z: I think If We Were Villains is always a really big influence for us, considering that it has the ensemble cast and all these strange dynamics and relationships that feed into one another, making the story. I think that’s a lot of what Glory and Gore is. Also, absolutely Plato’s Republic and Plato’s Symposium. Hm, this project was also initially born out of a class that Gianna and I took together, first semester of freshman year. In that class, we read both Plato’s Symposium and Republic, among other things, and I think those texts—this story came out at such a time in our lives as readers, writers, and people in the world. I love all of that literature so much, and Glory and Gore would not exist without it!

S.T : Are there characters from literature that you took inspiration from?

G.C : There are definitely inspirations, but at the same time, dark academia is very structured; you can match the characters across all of the books. It’s such a formula. I would definitely say that Henry Winter from The Secret History is like Brooks Vaughn, but at the same time, they are not the same at all. Even Elliot and Alexander from If We Were Villains—the core of what those characters do is the same, but the characters are completely different.

S.T : Do you have a favorite line that you have written? 

L.Z : Yeah, I love this question!!!

G.C : This is a line that was in the original Glory and Gore, and it’s the only line from this scene that we kept in the new one: “I wouldn’t mind a glass of wine and an orgy.” That’s my favorite for sure.

L.Z : Oh my gosh. Hm...maybe one of Elliot’s lines. Yeah, maybe. I’ll give you my serious answer, because that’s my favorite one that we’ve written. And my joke—I’m so glad it isn’t in the movie. The real one is: “The depth of pleasure can be just as fruitful as the depths of pain,” to which someone responds, “Give me a fucking break.” And then the one that I’m so glad made it into the movie is—actually, I think it’s the heart of the movie. This movie could not exist without this comment: “You’ve read The Second Sexe?” It’s my favorite joke ever.

S.T : How did you ensure that the film would resonate with the audience? Did you rely more on dialogue, visual storytelling?

L.Z: I feel it’s all of the above, but it’s difficult because we are not the actors. Really, what we have control over is the direction and the writing.

G.C: I really wish, in terms of visual storytelling, that we could have done more. I wish we could have taken more liberties, but because we are a student film, we had such a tight schedule. We filmed it over eight days. We were on a very tight schedule, so we couldn’t take as many liberties.

L.Z : I think, in an ideal world, it would be all of those things. I hope the audience resonates with the movie; I really hope they do. I have no idea. I feel like the project is so close to us, and it has been such a long time coming. I can’t wait for the audience’s reception. It’s so scary and vulnerable because it’s a proof of concept. Of course, it can stand on its own—hopefully it’s entertaining, and people enjoy it and see it for what it is—but I think people will want more because the ending might be seen as unsatisfying.

G.C : I hope the audience understands that it’s a student movie. This is a proof of concept. We had a budget of $5,000 and eight days of shooting. It was all made by students; every single person who worked on it is not a professional. I hope that’s something the audience understands and doesn’t judge it by the standards of a blockbuster film. I really hope people will say, “I hope that becomes a bigger thing,” because that would mean we’ve done our job, and that would be a really good thing.

L.Z : There’s something really special about that. We are literally 20 years old, and all of these people are working on this. For some of them, it’s their first time working. None of them are professionals in the real world. Giving us their time made it so special.

S.T : I noticed you have quite a few playlists. Music seems to play a big part in your creative process. What role does it play in the storytelling process?

L.Z : Oh my gosh, everything. Literally everything. The first thing I do when I come up with a character is find their music. I listen to their music because I want to see their world. It’s a way of getting to know them. When we were writing, we played particular songs that would give us dopamine and make us feel a certain way to fuel the writing. When we were on set, we were listening to specific music.

S.T : What was the most challenging aspect of directing Glory and Gore?

G.C : The most challenging aspect was being both a producer and a director. It’s a necessity for students, but producing and directing at the same time is incredibly difficult... you can’t fully focus on directing because you’re also producing. Honestly, just don’t do it if you can avoid it.

L.Z : You worry about everything that’s happening. At the same time, we didn’t have a full crew, so there were 25-30 of us, and everyone was doing their specific job while we were juggling five jobs on top of directing.

S.T : What was the hardest part to write or film?

G.C : Oh, the woods scene. In the beginning of the movie, there’s a scene in the woods, and filming that was horrendous. It was dark and it was raining.
​L.Z : It was really unfortunate because, as we mentioned, we were quite pressed for time and on a really strict schedule. When you’re filming outside, you can’t control nature and all these other circumstances affecting the process. We had to wait until the rain stopped because we were using really expensive equipment. We were already a mess, and it was only our second day of shooting.

G.C : It was also a twelve-hour shoot day. We were at a different location in the morning.

L.Z : It’s such a heavy scene as well. It’s easily the heaviest scene in the movie and physically the most demanding for the actors.

G.C : It was raining, and you can see it. We could’ve done without it, but it looks beautiful, and we managed to keep those flames going, even with the rain.

S.T : Do you have any anecdotes or favorite moments from the set?
G.C : My personal favorite, which made me laugh the hardest, was the very first day of filming. There’s this scene where they all have to step forward into the camera because it’s Cassius’s POV. He has to take a knife out of his pocket, but it was a really cheap plastic knife, so it rattled. I think I ruined that take about five times because I kept bursting out laughing.

L.Z : One thing that made it really hard, and something we underestimated, is that all these people are our friends. When they drop into their characters, we all have to stay professional, but there were so many moments on set that were really hard to achieve. But, on the flip side, there were also so many scenes that were just really fun to film. All of the montage scenes were a blast to film. Everyone was laughing and having a great time. There’s one particular scene in the montage where someone had to throw up. We had to make a concoction for them to use, and earlier that day, the same person almost passed out because...Okay, this is really funny. We gave them a black eye with makeup, but the issue was that making it look realistic actually made him incredibly squeamish. He felt like someone had really punched him in the face. So, he was literally ready to throw up. The problem was, one of our makeup artists is horrified by vomit, and she was about to pass out too. So, here they both were, on the verge of passing out, while we were trying to get them ready for the shoot. We kept wondering why it was taking so long, not realizing they were both struggling just to make it through !

an interview by Selma Tabti 

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After hearing how Gianna and Lyanna brought these intense scenes to life, you can’t miss Glory and Gore. Stream it now for free on YouTube!